Relationship Building with Guest, Chana Pfeifer, Imago-trained Therapist Specializing in Relationship Therapy from Hempstead, NY and Host, Rosalind Sedacca of Divorce, Dating & Empowered Living Show on WGSN-DB Going Solo Network, Radio, TV & Podcasts.
Welcome to divorce, dating and empowered living with your host Rosalind Sedacca. Join Rosalind each week on a journey toward overcoming life’s many challenges to achieve peace, empowerment, and positive transformation. It’s time to relax, unwind, and transform your life with Rosalind Sedacca.
The focus of this show is to help you get more insights, information, tools and resources to have the most positive experience when you are divorcing with children, when you’re dating after divorce, and when you’re transitioning in your life so that you can move on and have a happier future.
So I have a wonderful guest today to help me with all of that and her name is Chana Pfeifer. Chana Pfeifer has been a licensed social worker for more than 25 years, specializing in relationships since 2013. She’s had a private practice since 2004, has worked in the home care field, and has been teaching a college class as well. Chana is passionate about her work as an Imago trained therapist, which is relationship work that I am very impressed with as well. It’s a really sound program that gets fabulous results and she’s also grateful for her own difficult personal journey, which includes having her own divorce. So welcome Chana.
Why don’t we start by asking you what it’s like being divorced and then being a marriage counselor?
I have taken all kinds of advanced courses and have done extensive training and at the same time I wasn’t able to fix my own relationship. But what it does, is it helps me know what it’s like to be in the trenches. I have this incredible knowledge and experience of what it’s really like to struggle in relationship. I’m not perfect either, but at the same time I’m honored to be able to help couples connect in a really conscious way, even though I wasn’t able to fix my own relationship. It is an interesting conundrum. If I wouldn’t have struggled in my own relationship, I don’t believe I would have come into this expertise. It has changed my life for the better both personally and professionally. I’m so grateful that I specialize in relationship work.
Well, I hear you and I appreciate and value your candor. That means a lot to our listeners because your honesty is refreshing and very important.
So because you’ve been through the divorce arena and you have all the professional experiences as a counselor, what’s your best advice for couples who are separating and divorcing?
So it’s really, to a certain extent, what the name of your center is and that really is to focus on the children. You know, and it doesn’t matter whether they’re little kids or whether they’re adults. No matter what, when we get divorced, we will always be their parents, whether the other parent is in their life every day, whether they’re not, they need us to support that.
I’ll never forget when my daughter was about seven or eight and I was very careful not to say anything negative about her father. She noticed my look on my face and she said, mommy, why do you have such a ugly look on your face when you talk to daddy? I was really flabbergasted because here I thought I was doing a great job of not badmouthing him, not God forbid alienating. She saw the body language that had an impact on her and that that was not healthy.
Even though we can’t control our unconscious feelings about our former spouse who we’re choosing not to be married to, they will always be our partner in terms being our child’s parent. And to respect that and to honor that because that child is half of our ex partner and instead of looking at our ex partner when we see our children, instead to look at this child who needs to feel whole. It doesn’t matter whether they’re young or old, my daughter’s now 24, it’s really important to really try to help that child love that part of him or herself because that never goes away.
So important and well said. I know our children are watching, learning from us as role models and judging us as well. And when they’re grown adults, they’re going to hold us very accountable for the way we handle that divorce. So sometimes parents feel they could get away with things, they mislead children with information they could bad mouth the other parent because the kids don’t know any better or afraid to say anything. But ultimately your children really are watching and learning and they will hold you very accountable when you’re, when they’re grown on how you handle the divorce. And that’s why it’s so important for us to be doing what you’re talking about, the role models for our children.
Take and be aware of our reactivity and our feelings about our ex partner because it’s not okay for the kid to experience that. Again, we’re allowed to not want to be with our ex, but at the same time that child, it’s important for them to feel loved and have some level of relationship, whatever it makes sense, that we don’t vomit our reactivity and our negativity on the child. Um, it’s really not fair to them to try to taint their image of the parents.
Well said and it’s so true and not make them feel guilty for loving both parents.
Absolutely. It’s such a great point that the more love a child receives, the better. And even if we don’t want to be with that person, the love they received from the parent, no matter what, generally speaking, that the more love the better.
I agree. A lot of people who move into the world of divorce feel a sense of aloneness, sense of losing their connectivity with others. And of course we are recording this interview during the midst of the Coronavirus where people are feeling even more alone. So can you talk to us a bit about that?
Sure. Part of what I’ve found, and we can pretend that we’re fine, but there are certain events that are triggering, let’s say going to a wedding, which we’re not dealing with right now, but where we can feel very alone and really consciously choosing nourishing activities. You know, picking up the phone and actually hearing a person’s voice, really using the technology to see people’s faces, especially that we know, we really can choose to not be alone and to also really consciously choose to create a support system if we didn’t have one. Because I think, you know, as Harville Hendrix says, we are born to be in connection. And you know, I heard recently how teenagers who would, they’re constantly on their screens being that they’re not physically in school. You know, across the country now they’re really experiencing these feelings of isolation.
So it’s not just with, you know, we can experience still face, which that’s a whole other discussion, but that we find nourishing ways so it’s not just spending time with a person, making sure our phones are down and again, we can’t necessarily spend so much time with other people at this moment in our history. But one example is my stepsons would come over for dinner and they would make me dinner and we would just enjoy this conversation. In this time together. I felt it was so nice to feel like they were helping me. They made me dinner and at the same time it was just lovely to spend time as a family that way. It’s really trying to find nourishing, not just spending time together, but kind of massages the soul almost.
That’s a great expression. I love that you give a vivid visualization of what is happening when that connectivity is really being handled on a deeply heartfelt basis. So thank you for that.
It’s my pleasure. I just, I feel, I feel honored to be able to participate because it is so hard to feel alone. I’m very grateful for the choices only because I’m a therapist that I’ve learned and I’m really grateful to be able to share any kind of knowledge that I have. So I’m grateful that you asked me to participate.
Chana Pfeifer is giving us a lot of insight into the human condition during divorce and during the experiences of the aftermath of divorce. A question that I often get is how people can deal best with the stigma, the shame, the insecurities, doubts and fears of feeling like a failure and other related emotions of being divorced. What can you tell us about that?
So unfortunately feeling like a failure and shame, they’re real. Um, it is a public kind of demonstration where there’s a box that you have to check when you fill out basic applications. And so really being aware of our feelings around that and our role in our marriage not working out. And rather than pretending that those feelings aren’t there, to deal with them and what were you responsible for in our relationship and how do we be proactive to manage those feelings differently. And also really choosing to almost have like an invisible armor that if people give you a look, certain judgments, be aware of that relationship space and that feeling of being judged and do we take that on or do we not? And that we can consciously again be aware of our reactivity of us feeling like a failure, of us taking on the body language or choosing not to and saying, you know what, it didn’t work out and this is a new chapter and this is what I’m grateful for. Or not having to give an explanation but really choosing do I participate in that energy or am I really comfortable with where am and it’s wasn’t what I wanted to happen, but at the same time, you know what? Here I am and I’m going to try to choose to move forward rather than getting stuck in that negativity, which doesn’t really serve us but it is there and pretending that it’s not, it’s hard.
I think in addition, we should be monitoring what we’re telling ourself because a lot of what’s behind those feelings of shame and blame and, and stigma or telling ourselves that we’re different, we don’t belong. We were a failure in our marriage or whatever that labeling is, and that we can be very abusive to ourselves. Can we not?
Oh my gosh, we are our worst critics. And again, rather than pretending that those messages don’t go through our head, being aware, oh, there they are, and how am I choosing to show up differently? What are the positive messages that I want to give myself instead? I am lovable, I am successful, I am making healthy choices that we choose to be our own worst critic. And maybe we want to show up differently.
And can I add another statement that something to the effect of, I’m still a good mother or good father. Despite the divorce, I continue to be a valuable positive parent despite the divorce and reminding ourselves that the divorce does not judge my capability of parenting the children that I love.
Yes, 100%. And when they quote the statistics about children of divorced parents, again that may be accurate to a certain extent, but they are individuals in this and how do we choose to show up given the knowledge that it is harder to parent when you have two separate households and what can we do differently rather than, well why bother because we’re divorced and I ruined everything. Really thinking about how can we help show up as parents given that we do have two separate households and looking at the success cases. What are the success cases? Who does it well, I mean I had a friend who when it was not invoked, really demonstrated co-parenting beautifully that their divorce was not about, you know, I hate you, etc. It was really like, we are not good for each other, the energy is toxic and let’s parent our child the best that we can without fighting as much as possible. But let’s try to be on the same page. That’s really what’s best for the kids. So and as best for us too.
Absolutely. I so agree and yes that is the foundation behind the child center divorce network.
I’m located in New York, I’m in Cedarhurst and West Hempstead, long Island. I’m doing tele-health sessions now, which is something I’ve never done before but I assist in workshops. I was going to do a workshop in a local coffee shop. Very grateful for what I do.
We are grateful for what you do as well. And you are listed on the child centered divorce directory of experts because I am so impressed with the quality of the services we’re offering. Uh, let me ask you this as our last question. How do you deal with the triggering events that occur when we don’t have a normal family and we are coping with being divorced and co-parenting and all the related challenges? There’s always triggers from the outside world. And what’s your advice on that?
Part of that is planning ahead. For example, if there’s a holiday coming up, am I having the kids and I not having the kids? What were the triggers last year? And if this is new, then what might be difficult and how can I surround myself with people who can support me in the way that I need? So it’s rather than pretending, Oh, everything’s going to be fine or I’ll get through it. It’s also asking for help, you know, inviting yourself to someone’s house so that you’re not alone rather than waiting for that person to call you and invite you. I mean, my life is a little bit crazy. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve told, please call me and invite yourself because I just might not think about you. And so, and if you ask me, it would make me so happy. And so again, part of it is looking at your calendar and saying, so what might be triggering? What might be difficult times? Who do I have in my support network? Or who can I enlist on my support network that maybe I haven’t.
I just, earlier today a colleague of mine was saying that she can’t find ground Turkey where she lives. And so I said, well, I wonder if there’s any one person that maybe you wouldn’t normally ask, but just keep your eyes out and if you see it, grab me two pounds and that would be great. And so just getting into this mode that it’s okay to ask for help and that sometimes we need help and sometimes we give help and that when we ask for help, we’re actually letting the other person help us. And that again, that’s nourishing for both parties. That’s been one of the huge stretches for me in being divorced. I like to help people. I’d rather not, you know, ask for help, but it sometimes I can give help and sometimes I need help.
So true. Yes. And we also, we also have triggers sometimes in communication, especially communication with our former spouse when we’re talking about issues. Um, can you talk a bit about that as well?
Well, that’s partly being responsible for our own stuff and our own reactivity and making sure we’re not ‘hangry’, you know, hungry and angry. We’re not exhausted. One of the many tips that I’ve loved from Harville Hendrix is making an appointment that, Hey, I want you to talk to you about switching weekends.. is now a good time? You know, and making sure that it’s a good time for us, that we’re not crazed and annoyed, that we’re responsible to talk in a calm tone of voice and we’re responsible for not being insulting. One expression I love is when a finger is pointed at someone else, there’s one finger pointing forward and three fingers pointing at ourselves. Again, being aware of what we are putting into that relationship building space. We may not know why does it have to have it? But again, we chose to have children together. So we have that and we need to be aware of our own triggers.
So there’s a great deal from what you’re talking about in personal responsibility. Personal responsibility will affect the caliber of our communication with difficult people in our lives and sometimes is our former spouse with difficult children and with difficult issues that are going on it too easy. Too often we find people will point the finger and blame and blame and not look at the fact there are different ways they can address the issues and those differences can make all the difference in the outcome.
Absolutely. If we recorded every session and looked at ourselves again, what can we do differently? Rather than looking at the other person, I can’t control any person other than myself. How do I control myself? How do I be aware? How do I notice rather than just looking at the other person?
That’s fabulous. Then I want to thank you Chana Pfeifer for all the wisdom you’ve shared with us.
